Carl Grove
Victoria and Albert Museum, London, SW7, 22 August 1968
Dear Mr Grove,
Many thanks indeed for your most interesting letter. No, it could not possibly be anything to do with a Zeppelin. Some Zeppelins certainly carried, and used, on occasion, an observation gondola lowered from the ship, in order to get bomb range when the Zepp herself was above the clouds, with the gondola hanging below.
Dear Mr Grove,
Many thanks indeed for your most interesting letter. No, it could not possibly be anything to do with a Zeppelin. Some Zeppelins certainly carried, and used, on occasion, an observation gondola lowered from the ship, in order to get bomb range when the Zepp herself was above the clouds, with the gondola hanging below.
They were tiny streamlined things to take one man (see photostat attached), and he was in telephonic touch with the Commander up above. They were also never suspended low down near the ground since they could be easily attacked by rifle and machine gun fire. There is not the remotest possibility that what Mrs Whiteland saw was anything connected with Zeppelins.*
This sighting is of great interest, and I wonder if you would write it up for the Review and send it to the Editor, Charles Bowen, who would I am sure be delighted to print it.
Why, I wonder, has she waited so long, and when is the earliest date at which any mention is known to have been made of it?
Kind regards, Yours sincerely, Charles Gibbs-Smith
* Incidentally, if the Zeppelin had altered course rapidly the gondola would have swung far out in the process of the turn.
P.S. The noise of the Zepp's engines would also have been terrific just overhead.
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In an attempt to extract more information Carl Grove wrote to Mr Whiteland again:
Pinner, Middx., 23 August 1968
Dear Mr Whiteland,
Thank you for your letter, which I have just received. I have now heard from Charles H. Gibbs-Smith, the aviation historian at the Victoria & Albert Museum: Mr Gibbs-Smith is regarded generally as the leading authority on aeronautical history in this country. He states firmly, "There is not the remotest possibility that what Mrs Whiteland saw was anything to do with Zeppelins," and enclosed with his letter a photostat copy of a photo of an observation device of the sort carried by some Zeppelins. (Enclosed.)
They were used when the airship was flying above cloud cover, the observer being in constant touch with the Commander of the Zeppelin (a telephone wire is just visible in the photostat) and were never suspended near the ground, since they could be easily attacked by gunfire. There are many other reasons why the platform could not have been hanging from a Zeppelin; as you point out, a turn of 90° would be quite impossible. (I have tried it with a button on the end of a piece of cotton.) I find your remarks about the thickness of rope required to support such a platform of great interest, since I had been wondering about this myself. Furthermore, I am sure at least three ropes would be needed to support a circular platform with any sort of stability.
I was glad to hear your offer of more information, since I have a few more questions which your mother might care to answer. Some, I realise, might be quite difficult, since it was so long ago, and some might seem rather obvious or repetitive - however, it is necessary to get all the facts possible from this observation. I have enclosed the questions on 2 separate sheets, so that the answers can be written out straight under the questions, in questionnaire form. In addition, might I have your mother's full name and address (you say she is still living in the same house). I also enclose my own drawing of the platform, which I know is too large, based on your sketch and description, and your mother might indicate any alterations needed to make it more acceptable, and then sign it to say that it is something like what she saw.
Thank you also for the further remarks about Mr Graham's mother's observation - I have written to Mr Graham, but as yet have received no reply.
Lastly, I wonder if you would allow me to send details of your mother's observation to interested persons, possibly with a view to publication in a Journal specialising in reports of this sort?
Very many thanks for being so helpful,
Yours sincerely, C. Grove
p.s. It might be best if you read the questions out one by one to your mother, writing down the answers. If she says anything interesting in answering a particular question you might follow it up, of course, and write what she says down separately. Thank you once again for going to so much trouble.
PPS - Also, please don't show your mother the photostat or tell her of Mr Gibbs-Smith's remarks until you have completed the questionnaire.
PPPS - Could you indicate (by drawing) the course of the telegraph wires you mentioned?
(Sorry about all these PS's) - A couple of the questions are quite hard; what I mean by Qn 9(b) is, did the object turn as would a car, boat or aircraft, keeping one point on the object directed forward along the direction of travel, or did it instead suddenly move to the right in such a way that a different point on the object then became the new "front edge","* 9(a) - all I want here is a map of the road showing the turn in large scale.
* e.g., if the object were a car,
13 - What I am getting at here is, suppose, when your mother first looked out of the window, that the object had been coming off the marshes, and had reached point 'A' would your mother have been able to see it?
14 - i.e. was it last seen as A or B?
Mr Whiteland replied, enclosing the completed questionnaire.
Saxmundham, Suffolk, 29/8/68
Dear Mr Grove
I was able to get my Mother to give more details of that object and the men, as requested in your letter of last week.
Thanks for answering and asking for more information, but Mother was a bit upset at first when I said you would like to send the particulars forward to be published. I got into hot water again, because of the letter in the "Mirror" "giving her age to everyone". Well at the finish she agreed and said "I'm a bit too old to have any worries about what people think of me." Her answers to the questions was wrote down as she spoke.
My brother who has Mother with him, said I should first point out to you that at Hazelwood - 1½ miles from Aldeburgh WEST. There was an aerodrome during the first war, but at what year it was built I don't know. Could be '16 as I can remember being taken up there, when very young. It finished 1919.
Then there was one at Orfordness about 3 miles or so, SOUTH of Aldeburgh. When Mother spoke to my Father about what she had seen, he did say that it could have been something from the Germans, but as things were being built and tried in this country "what you have seen is best not to be talked about" and so Mother only used to speak later on after the War about it at times.
During the '14-'18 War soldiers were in Aldeburgh all the time, and a Camp was along the Leiston Road not more than 150 yds from Mother's, so it does seem strange with the soldiers and coastguards about that no one else mentioned it.
Now the photostat. I did as you asked but she could not make anything out of it, kept turning it round till I put it the right way up and explained about it. "Oh its got ropes on that one, but the thing I saw hadn't any ropes at all - never seen anything before like that."
I've returned the photostat, and you will find enclosed a photograph of 1910-11, this was taken by the person standing on the road as shown on sketch. The fifth window in the first block of houses is the one that Mother stood at that day.
The electric wires could have been put up after the photo was taked because I well remember the electric light bulbs were enclosed with glass bowls but were not lit up until after the war, and on the photo the telegraph pole opposite Mothers can be seen above the roof of the Railway Hotel.
A Mr R.A. Winslow has written letters to me, giving explanations about the object, etc, and his last one when I replied, and said that the rail around the platform was of brass. His reply said, "Yes that rail was of brass and the rest of the platform was made up of teak and oak."
Dear Mr Grove
I was able to get my Mother to give more details of that object and the men, as requested in your letter of last week.
Thanks for answering and asking for more information, but Mother was a bit upset at first when I said you would like to send the particulars forward to be published. I got into hot water again, because of the letter in the "Mirror" "giving her age to everyone". Well at the finish she agreed and said "I'm a bit too old to have any worries about what people think of me." Her answers to the questions was wrote down as she spoke.
My brother who has Mother with him, said I should first point out to you that at Hazelwood - 1½ miles from Aldeburgh WEST. There was an aerodrome during the first war, but at what year it was built I don't know. Could be '16 as I can remember being taken up there, when very young. It finished 1919.
Then there was one at Orfordness about 3 miles or so, SOUTH of Aldeburgh. When Mother spoke to my Father about what she had seen, he did say that it could have been something from the Germans, but as things were being built and tried in this country "what you have seen is best not to be talked about" and so Mother only used to speak later on after the War about it at times.
During the '14-'18 War soldiers were in Aldeburgh all the time, and a Camp was along the Leiston Road not more than 150 yds from Mother's, so it does seem strange with the soldiers and coastguards about that no one else mentioned it.
Now the photostat. I did as you asked but she could not make anything out of it, kept turning it round till I put it the right way up and explained about it. "Oh its got ropes on that one, but the thing I saw hadn't any ropes at all - never seen anything before like that."
I've returned the photostat, and you will find enclosed a photograph of 1910-11, this was taken by the person standing on the road as shown on sketch. The fifth window in the first block of houses is the one that Mother stood at that day.
The electric wires could have been put up after the photo was taked because I well remember the electric light bulbs were enclosed with glass bowls but were not lit up until after the war, and on the photo the telegraph pole opposite Mothers can be seen above the roof of the Railway Hotel.
A Mr R.A. Winslow has written letters to me, giving explanations about the object, etc, and his last one when I replied, and said that the rail around the platform was of brass. His reply said, "Yes that rail was of brass and the rest of the platform was made up of teak and oak."
So with this information, I have decided to give you his address as he seems to be well up in particulars, referring to the object and men. He is a man that has travelled much and a time serving man in the Forces (Army) almost 80 years of age: R.A. Winslow, -------------, South Lambeth, London S.W.8
I trust that the answers will be of help to you.
Yours sincerely, A.E. Whiteland
I trust that the answers will be of help to you.
Yours sincerely, A.E. Whiteland
Sketch enclosed with the above letter |
1. Can you estimate how long the First World War had been going on when you saw the object?
On a Thursday when I used to do the bedrooms, but when, month or year I can't say. It was a bright day I know, and could have been around the middle of the year. Its a long while ago now, to think about that.2. What were your feelings as the object came up the road towards you - were you at all frightened or worried?
On a Thursday when I used to do the bedrooms, but when, month or year I can't say. It was a bright day I know, and could have been around the middle of the year. Its a long while ago now, to think about that.
Bit on the worrying side in case they might fire against the houses/DID YOU SEE A GUN THEN/ No. No gun or anything like that, but I didn't know who they could be, ours or even the Germans. When you see these men coming straight along from the marsh, up in the air you don't know how you feel perhaps I was more puzzled how they kept up.
Moved in steady line towards me no wavering. It came over the marsh gate. /DID IT GO UP A BIT OR DOWN OR SIDEWAYS/ No, as steady as anything, it came straight along the road and I thought it was going straight along the Leiston Road when it turned off and went between the pub and the room, i.e. THIS IS A ROOM OVER THE CART SHED, WHERE MEN USED TO SLEEP IF STAYING OVERNIGHT AND MOVING ON NEXT DAY. THIS WAS ON THE LEFT OF THE OPENING, TOP SHED - CARTS UNDERNEATH, HAY, ETC ON LOFT.
Yes. Until it went away to the trees around Aldeburgh Lodge, and they hid it.
Oh! I dont know. Its a long time ago.
No didn't look for that. By the time I'd took it in, it was near to Mr Knowles the house on the photograph enclosed with "for sale" notice on the window taken around 1910-11.
Yes, and could have seen, perhaps they had been there before and how did they know where to turn up between the buildings.
8. Were they talking to each other, or showing any emotion, etc.?
Saw no movement by the men, just looking out straight. When it turned off, they didn't seem surprised, it just turned that was all. All the same height and stood at attention holding on.
9. When the machine turned: (a) Could you draw in the course of the object as it turned, using the following drawing:
(b) When the object turned, did it turn as in I or II below?
As No. 2, just came straight off the marshes and turned as if they knew they were going to turn.
(c) Did the object turn smoothly, or did it waver or tilt, etc.?
Smoothly, no tilt, not even to go over the shed up the yard. I thought it wasn't high enough.
10. Are you quite sure that, had there been an airship above the object, you would have seen it?
I looked up but couldn't see anything. If there was a airship it must have been high up. Perhaps I wasn't looking in the right place.11. When the object reached the second cart shed, did it rise to clear the roof, or did it just move on in a straight line?
Did not tip up, went straight over and did not think they would clear it what if it did turn over would they have got hurt. I could see their boots as they went up the yard i.e. - towards the shed.12. Here is my own interpretation of the platform and men. Could you indicate where it is out of proportion, or any other details that I have missed out? e.g. is it much too large, etc.?
"The men stood thicker together." Just like this. There they went, with the rail they held on to as high as their middle, both rails could have been brass, the top one was hollow in the middle the men stood round the outside.
13. According to the map, when you FIRST saw the object, it had already reached the main road to Saxmundham. Had you looked in this direction when you first looked out of the window, and if so, would you have seen the object had it been further away, in the area of the marshes?Yes I first saw it over the marsh gate. It came straight from over the marshes - perhaps it had come in by the tower (Martello - 1½ miles SSE) and then came along at the back of the trees. Oh I don't know if I did look first, but when I looked that way there it was. No unless I had leaned out of the window.
14. When you LAST saw the object, was it lost to view among the trees and houses, or did it fly over the trees and out of sight? (A drawing would be much appreciated here.)
Over the trees and out of sight. If there had been no trees I don't know how far I would have seen it, as it was getting smaller.15. About how thick was the body of the platform?
Quite thick, like a raft. About 10-12 inches. Mother held her hands to about the thickness, one over the other.16. Was there anything else you noticed about the platform that you haven't mentioned yet? e.g. any smoke being given off, any lights on it?
Like a raft, it made her think of a bathing raft in the sea. No smoke or lights. What in daylight at 12 o'clock, she said. If that had been ½ past 12 plenty of people would have been about to have seen it, they would have been going to dinner. When asked about roundness, Mother said again, round like a raft, you know what a raft looks like to me. (THOSE USED ON THE BEACH WERE 6 SIDED AND 12 ft DIA.)17. Did the object at any time in its course pass behind any tree or building?
I didn't see it go behind anything except the trees at Aldeburgh Lodge.18. Can you add anything else about the course taken by the object, its motion, etc.?
"No, nothing different to what I've told you." "I wonder if that was German and if that got back."[Why did it turn at that point, and not go into the station yard (goods) as there was a clearance of 50 ft between the Railway Hotel and the station building and a clearance of about the same between station and goods shed at rear.]
19. About how far from you was the object when you first saw it?
Right out the front here, oh marsh gate [estimate 100 yds (maybe under)]20. About how far from you was the object when you last saw it?
¼ mile and could be just over, by Aldeburgh Lodge.Thank you very much for your helpful cooperation in answering these questions, and may I apologise for putting you to any trouble.
Full name: A.E. Whiteland (Mrs) Agnes Ethel, Address: --------, Aldeburgh, Suffolk
Date: 28/8/64. Statements taken by Alfred Edmund Whiteland (son), Saxmundham, Suffolk
CONTINUE TO PART THREE
CONTINUE TO PART THREE
